Cecile Pin: “I’m not half of anything”
The author on compassion, holding histories close and never quite belonging
Hi, welcome back to Mixed Messages! This week I’m speaking to author Cecile Pin, who is of mixed-Vietnamese and French heritage. Cecile’s debut novel, Wandering Souls, follows the story of siblings Anh, Thanh and Minh as they flee Vietnam for Hong Kong, travelling by boat. With the siblings navigating refugee camps and resettlement centres until they reach Thatcher’s Britain, Cecile explores how the family rebuild their lives in a place that doesn’t seem to want them. It is a wonderful book and a story that will stay with you long after you turn the final page – read Cecile’s story below.
How do you define your racial identity?
My dad is French and my mum is from Vietnam. I grew up in Paris. When people hear me they get a bit confused because I’ve got a bit of a North American accent too – I lived in New York when I was eight for four years. I moved to London at 18, so part of me feels like I’m part of the British Vietnamese diaspora.
What language do you use to refer to your mixedness?
I used to say mixed-race, but I try to avoid it now because I don’t like the word ‘race.’ I usually just tell people that I’m half-French, half-Vietnamese as a shortcut, but I’ve come to realise that I’m not half of anything. I’m fully French and I’m fully Vietnamese at the same time.
You’ve lived in a few different places, has that affected how you’ve felt about your identity?
I think so. When I moved back to France after living in the UK my classmates didn’t really see me as French because I had developed a bit of an accent and dressed differently. When I was in New York or Great Britain, people saw me as very French. Because I lived in the West for so long, my Vietnamese heritage got pushed to the background a little bit. It’s only quite recently that I’ve learned to embrace it, especially with writing the book.
I wasn’t very political for a long time because I didn’t feel like I belonged anywhere. I didn’t feel like I could criticise British politics and the same in France. The world we live in is so international, and now I think the fact that I’ve lived in all those different countries means that I have a global understanding of them. I see it as a blessing.
Wandering Souls is such a moving book. Towards the end of the novel, the timeline shifts to the start of the pandemic and the rise in racism against the ESEA community – did those events sharpen your own Vietnamese heritage?
As I grew up, I realised people would always see me as Asian, even more than I saw myself as Asian. I did some modelling in my late teens and I realised that I would always get cast as the token Asian girl on shoots. At university, I started to be fetishised and became wary of ‘yellow fever’ and those kind of things.
I always was proud of my Vietnamese heritage, but I felt a slight disconnect because I grew up in the West. Besides from my mum’s family, I didn’t have many Asian friends at school. It’s really when I moved to the UK that I became more curious to learn more about my heritage and family history.
During COVID and that rise in anti-Asian hate, I started reading more books like Minor Feelings by Cathy Park Hong or books by Ocean Vuong and Michelle Zauner. I started becoming more aware of the issues and struggles we face as Asians. It’s been a process, and it’s come from research.
Is that research a key way you’ve connected to your Vietnamese heritage?
I always knew a bit about my mum’s story, that she was in a camp in Thailand and moved to France, and lost her parents and siblings on that journey. I became curious to know more, not just about her story but about Vietnamese boat people in general. That research was definitely a way for me to connect, as well being part of the community, talking to more people with my background and building friendships with other Vietnamese people and second-generation immigrants.
Is this something you ever spoke to your family about?
No, not really. It was just a given, we went with it. It was that ‘never explain, never complain’ mentality. Growing up, I experienced more secondhand racism, especially when I was out with my mum. I’d see how my mum was treated by salespeople and things. She never complained about it, I think probably as a way to protect me and my sister. We still don’t talk about it much. Now, it feels like a much more normal, common thing to be mixed-race, which is great.
Do you think the conversation around mixedness is stuck in any way?
I think there’s a fetishisation of mixed-race people, both women and men saying that they want mixed-race kids. That’s something that I think is problematic. I think we also need to broaden the conversation to include all kinds of mixes and not assume everyone has a white parent. Everyone’s experience is so different.
A lot of guests have told me that being mixed has made them more curious and open – has that been the case for you?
I think being mixed gave me a sense of empathy and understanding of different cultures, which is something I wanted to explore in the book. I was really interested to see how different countries and societies deal with grief. You’ve got Vietnam and Southeast Asian cultures, where grief is seen as a joyous thing and you have funerals that last for days with music on the streets. Whereas in Christian culture, it feels more quiet and private.
I also wanted to explore that sense of not belonging in one country – almost all the characters in the book feel that way. That definitely comes from me being mixed-race. I didn’t know whether to make the characters mixed-race, but in the end them not being mixed was a way for me to separate truth from fiction.
Did anything surprise you about writing this book?
I learned a lot. It was hard to learn about the rapes and sexual assault that Vietnamese boat people went through, I was becoming quite attached to the story and I had nights where I felt quite distressed about it. It wasn’t so much learning my history, but learning how close I held that story to my heart and seeing how that still affected me.
What’s the best thing about being mixed for you?
I love being mixed-race, growing up with two different cultures, religions and understandings or points of view in the world. I’m grateful for that – I think it makes you a more open-minded and accepting person.
Can you sum up your mixed experience in one word?
Compassion. Being raised with two different cultures has brought me a lot of compassion. I really wanted to show compassion for the different characters in the book, and it’s something that’s definitely shaped me.
Pre-order Wandering Souls now and follow Cecile on Instagram and Twitter. Next week, I’ll be speaking to writer, podcaster and academic Anna Sulan Masing. Subscribe to get Mixed Messages in your inbox on Monday.
Enjoy Mixed Messages? Support me on Ko-Fi! Your donations, which can start from £3, help me pay for the transcription software needed to keep this newsletter weekly, as well as special treats for subscribers. I also earn a small amount of commission (at no extra cost to you) on any purchases made through my Bookshop.org affiliate links.
Mixed Messages is a weekly exploration of the mixed-race experience, from me, Isabella Silvers. My mom is Punjabi (by way of East Africa) and my dad is white British, but finding my place between these two cultures hasn’t always been easy. That’s why I started Mixed Messages, where each week I’ll speak to a prominent mixed voice to delve into what it really feels like to be mixed.
Loved this interview. I stopped listening in the middle of Wandering Souls to learn more about Cecile Pin. I've also been interrupting my reading to question my husband. He's a Vietnam veteran who married his first wife while stationed in Taiwan. She's Chinese and they raised their mixed race daughter in the Midwest. Fascinating. With so many interruptions I think this is one I'll need to read twice.
I love how Cecile says she’s not half of anything. 💗