Johny Pitts: “I’m not grateful to be here, it’s my right”
The photographer and writer on being on the periphery, finding a space to embrace both and not being drawn into division
Hi, welcome back to Mixed Messages! This week’s guest is writer, photographer and presenter Johny Pitts, who is of mixed-African American and white British heritage. Johny’s book, Afropean, came out in 2019 and instantly became an essential read for anyone looking to better understand how Blackness takes part in European identities, a urgently needed perspective. Johny’s work is now available in a new six-part podcast exploring major European cities and the art, politics and history of their Black communities. Afropean: The Journal is also out now, a limited edition photobook of archive images and ephemera throughout Johny’s journeys. I’ve wanted to speak to Johny ever since starting Mixed Messages, so it was a joy to hear his story – read it below.
How do you describe yourself?
I describe myself as mixed-race. I don't think there's any term that's perfect. Black is not perfect. For now, mixed-race feels the most appropriate, but it has its problems. For a lot of people whose background includes slavery, DNA can be from all over the place. It's important to not deal with ethnic absolutism, because we're all mixed really, aren't we?
My Blackness, or mixed-raceness, wasn’t common because my dad was African American, from Brooklyn. You feel on the periphery of the discussion not having Caribbean heritage, which was the dominant Black identity in this country until fifteen years ago when there’s been more of a West African influence.
What was your connection like to Black culture growing up?
To be African American and from Brooklyn feels really solid, but I’m once-removed from that, even though I was brought up with Spike Lee films and surrounded by all my dad's music and cultural references. My accent, too. But it’s quite a tight group, and once people realise that I have heritage rooted in Brooklyn, I'm allowed into spaces. But they don’t see me as African American immediately. A lot of the time they wouldn't even consider me Black, they think I’m Puerto Rican or Arabic. I never felt like I had that same cultural foundation as my dad.
I’m interested in this notion of being Black and from Sheffield, Stockholm or Moscow. What does it mean to start trying to build a history and knowledge of that long history of Black presence in Europe as a cultural foundation for myself? I was always looking out into the world, I knew Sheffield would never have all the answers.
It sounds like cementing your identity has been a real journey.
Massively. For me, it was all about hip-hop, especially from the States in the 90s. That was my way of finding a cultural language I could identify with. My dad grew up around the corner from Biggie, and even though he wasn’t massively into hip-hop, the music referenced places he grew up around. It was me looking for where I could place myself for my generation, but still trying to lean on him.
I’ve found a lot of strength and inspiration from Black America. If you’ve ever felt like you’re othered, Black America is a good place to wrestle with. But it was never going to provide all the answers I needed for my situation, growing up with a white mother and this white working class culture. I was trying to figure out a space where I could embrace both – that has really been my life's work.
In an interview with the British Journal of Photography, you said you were interested in taking Blackness outside of its comfort zone, away from a “neat London-oriented narrative” and groups ready to be ‘championed’ by outside interests.
Yeah – what happens if you’re mixed but into death metal music? Paul Gilroy calls it planetary humanism, this notion of being allowed to embrace many cultures. To me, that’s a really pleasurable and rewarding space, especially as we have this rise of nationalism and populism, a desire to go back to this monolithic notion of what an identity should be.
It also calls to mind W. E. B. Du Bois’ notion of double consciousness, two warring ideals – the gaze from the outside of who you are, then the reality of who you are. Grappling with that when you're somebody with brown skin in the West is frustrating and difficult. If you really embrace that exploration of what that means, it can be a really rewarding journey.
What were conversations about race like in your household?
My dad and I didn’t have a fraught relationship in terms of arguments, but he was a bit of a distant man sometimes and not always forthcoming with information. When he moved to the UK in the early 70s, he was escaping the Vietnam draft. As an African American man, he thought the UK was heaven. Even though his career didn’t take off as much as it might have done, h e didn’t face much direct racism because he was American. He was a bit blind to all the stuff that was going on, which caused a bit of disjunction between us.
I think that a lot of people who move to this country as first generation immigrants want to bring their children up to fit in because they're grateful to start again in a new place. For us, we’re born here. I’m not grateful, it’s my right.
Did you ever speak about being mixed explicitly?
Not really, which is a gift and a curse. Up until being a teenager, I didn’t really think about any of this stuff which in some ways was quite nice. My friendship group was very mixed, brought together by sport and music, and we never thought about any of it. Now, talking about identity and being mixed is a nice way to connect, to explore the blur of cultures. That, to me, is the ultimate project, to get back to that moment where you’re just taking your mates for granted.
Have you noticed any stereotypes around mixedness?
Throughout the ‘80s and ‘90s, it was almost like the one-drop rule. I think there was something in that notion of political blackness, when if you were Asian, you were Black, fighting against the common enemy. I try not to get drawn into conversations of division, especially when it comes to Black politics.
I’ve noticed the rise of not being taken as seriously if you have lighter skin. For me, it’s all about forging connections and solidarities, especially amongst oppressed groups. If I'm getting antagonism directed towards me from members of the Black community, I refuse to see them as my enemy.
When somebody from the Black community talks in ethnic absolutist terms, that’s what Tommy Robinson and racist white people are doing. My project is the opposite of that, to not see race, identity and culture as a monolithic thing. It’s shifting and fluid.
What’s the best thing about being mixed for you?
I see myself as a global citizen. I’m totally unruffled with whatever someone is, I’m open to the world in all its beautiful diversity in it all. I just love the different configurations of ethnicities and cultures and inspirations. Maybe this is a privileged thing to say, but I love to be confused for people native to the place I’m visiting. When I’m in Brazil, people think I’m Brazilian, in Morocco they think I’m Moroccan. It goes to show, think twice before you judge someone for the way they look.
Can you sum up your mixed experience in one word?
Being mixed is an experience that makes me suspicious of one word, but I’d say multitudes.
Listen to the Afropean podcast on Spotify or wherever you tune in. Next week, I’ll be speaking to author Amélie Skoda. Subscribe to get Mixed Messages in your inbox on Monday. Shop Mixed Messages tote bags and bookmarks on Etsy now.
Enjoy Mixed Messages? Support me on Ko-Fi! Your donations, which can start from £3, help me pay for the transcription software needed to keep this newsletter weekly, as well as special treats for subscribers. I also earn a small amount of commission (at no extra cost to you) on any purchases made through my Bookshop.org and Amazon affiliate links, where you can shop books, music and more by mixed creators.
Mixed Messages is a weekly exploration of the mixed-race experience, from me, Isabella Silvers. My mom is Punjabi (by way of East Africa) and my dad is white British, but finding my place between these two cultures hasn’t always been easy. That’s why I started Mixed Messages, where each week I’ll speak to a prominent mixed voice to delve into what it really feels like to be mixed.
Another great interview 👏🏽