Joseph Denison Carey: “We’re individuals and should be treated as such”
The chef on reshaping his identity, the vulnerability of soul food and belonging from by virtue of existing
Hi, welcome back to Mixed Messages! This week I’m speaking to chef Joseph Denison Carey, who is of white British and St Kittian heritage. You might recognise Joseph from ITV’s This Morning, Cooking With The Stars and Ainsley’s Good Mood Food, or as the founder of The Bread + Butter Supper Club. Joseph’s love of food and eating has definitely been inspired by family meals, and I was excited to hear more about his mixed identity. Read his story below.
Can you tell me a bit about your family background?
My mum’s white British and my dad’s Black, he’s from St Kitts in the Caribbean. I grew up with my mum, my parents separated when I was quite young. My relationship with my dad has been tumultuous – it was fractured, but now it’s healing.
I describe myself as Black – that’s been a journey over the last few years. I was raised by my white mum, I went to a private school in northwest London, most of my friends were white, I had that fractured relationship with my dad and subsequently my dad's side of the family, so I had a lack of a sense of belonging in some communities and was hesitant to refer to myself as Black. Getting my hair cut in a Black barbershop, I felt like I didn’t relate to the culture.
In the wake of the murder of George Floyd, everyone had an opinion and was posting Black squares. I was forced to think about how I felt and that sparked a reshaping of my identity. It was the first time I had to actually think about why I cared as opposed to why other people did. That’s when I started to get rid of the chip on my shoulder that I didn’t belong to this community and realise that, just like white people, we are individuals and should be treated as such.
Do you think that being mixed has impacted the way you see the world?
My initial response is that it’s made me more empathetic. My families – and I always refer to them as families as it’s not one family – are different in terms of race, socioeconomic background, how conservative their lifestyles are, so I think having those windows into two very different types of life makes me more empathetic and able to understand how different life can be for people.
I’m very curious and I love talking to people, and maybe that comes from my dad’s side. I’ve had a very open, honest and inquisitive relationship with my mum's side of the family, but there’s so much I don’t know about my dad’s side and I'm curious about it. Ultimately, the lived experiences of my family members made them who they are, and I want to know these stories because they’re my family.
Food is a huge way that many people connect to their culture – has that been the case for you?
Definitely. There are two types of a really good meal and they’re at opposite ends of the spectrum. One isn’t necessarily better than the other. There’s Michelin-star meals that cost £300 a head, and if the job is done properly it introduces you to food and eating in a way that maybe you haven’t seen before. Whether it’s the ingredients, the way they’re cooked, how they’re served or how you’re supposed to eat those dishes, there’s something new and it’s an experience – a valuable experience.
When I go to my nanny’s house and all my cousins are there, she serves the soul food that she’s been cooking for us for our entire lives. We're not being introduced to anything new or fancy, it’s super humble but it’s familiar. It’s a space in which me and my family feel like we can be totally vulnerable – the food becomes a vehicle through which we can laugh, joke, relax, share memories and stories and be a family.
Both of those experiences are great and valid, but for me, the family [dinner] tips it slightly because they’re the meals you remember forever. That’s what I try to replicate in my work. I try to make my supper clubs feel like you’re at a friend’s house, it’s very chill. All of the guests do their own drinks, I’ll cook sharing plates, and I get this from memories of my nanny and grandad.
Have you ever spoken to your family about being mixed?
I recently spoke to my dad and grandad about our experiences as Black men in this country, and what each generation has done for the subsequent one to make their life slightly easier. My grandad came to this country with nothing and some of his stories are insane, the only Black man among his military colleagues, but he built a life here. My dad was born into that life, he had a difficult time but it was slightly easier for him. He worked really hard and has done well financially. Then I’m obviously mixed which helps.
Do you think there’s a stereotype of what it means to be mixed?
I think the stereotype for mixed people is more prolific in the Black community than in the white one. There are all those memes about light-skinned guys as being seen as more dainty, I guess. It probably goes back to the field and house slaves, where lighter skins were seen as more privileged.
The grouping together was introduced by white people, but it has been heavily bought into by Black people. We’ve been indoctrinated, it’s generational, so breaking out of that is a massive part of reclaiming your identity as an individual. We do belong just by virtue of existing. We have choices to make about how much of the historical culture or familial culture we include in our lives. There’s no right or wrong answer. The quicker we develop that narrative, the better.
After George Floyd’s murder, I wrote a poem to get out some of my feelings. In it, I speak about the title ‘Black’ not being who I am. It doesn’t dictate my choices. Just because I’m Black, it doesn’t mean that I can’t like Arctic Monkeys.
What’s the best thing about being mixed for you?
I was going to make a joke and say that going to university at Oxford Brookes when the girls said they liked mixed-race guys, I was like ‘that’s great that that’s your type, I’m here for you.’ But I don’t know any different [than being mixed] to compare it to, it’s just my life. I don’t know the advantages or disadvantages. You just take it as it comes.
Can you sum up your mixed experience in a word?
No, but I can give you four – it's not that simple.
Follow The Bread + Butter Supper Club here. Next week, I’ll be speaking to author Wiz Wharton. Subscribe to get Mixed Messages in your inbox on Monday.
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Mixed Messages is a weekly exploration of the mixed-race experience, from me, Isabella Silvers. My mom is Punjabi (by way of East Africa) and my dad is white British, but finding my place between these two cultures hasn’t always been easy. That’s why I started Mixed Messages, where each week I’ll speak to a prominent mixed voice to delve into what it really feels like to be mixed.